Why did you revert my edits for Happiest Girl and Sea Of Sin? You didn't provide any explanation, and I don't see anywhere in Manual of style that my edits violate, so that seems unconstructive. I just wanted to note that Alan Friedman (who is part of François Kevorkian's team) is credited for "additional production", so I think he deserves a producer credit (like how Daniel Miller gets production credits for Music for the Masses tracks) considering the "regular versions" feature his contributions, while other Violator tracks do not. OilTankMix (talk) 06:12, 18 July 2022 (EDT)
Hey OilTankMix, apologies for the rollback, I know these can be frustrating.
I would like to revert those edits for now as they are a little on the speculative side, with some information that is not quite accurate or could be phrased more clearly.
Regarding "Mother Me", this song was never "rejected" from Violator, I do not believe it was ever that clear cut. The song was partly recorded so far as to feature a Dave vocal (AW, Shunt), but was simply never finished, likely due to time, stronger songs being prioritized, etc. In fact, I believe there is a Wilder quote on the Recoil site stating something to the effect of it being a challenge to record, and with time constraints, the band focused on recording other (stronger) songs, therefore the song was started but never finished. It is definitely good to be clear on songs that weren't finished and song demos that were rejected (ie: for contrast, I believe Dave's "Where I Wait" is a good example of a song demo that was directly rejected as a Depeche track).
The bit about the Tonal and Jack mix subtitles possibly being a result of another studio hand having worked on the songs is also a hair speculative. It's definitely good to add the name as an additional producer personnel credit, but there is no quote we are aware of stating anyone outside of the band was responsible for the mix subtitles. I believe AW has stated there were never any other unreleased mixes of these songs, and that the Tonal and Jack mixes are the "original" mixes of these songs.
There are also no quotes we are aware of relating to Happiest Girl and Sea of Sin having been shelved until the World In My Eyes single; it is likely they were worked on roughly in time with the rest of the songs recorded at the time. If anything, there is at least one AW quote (admittedly one he also contradicted in another Shunt quote) stating Happiest Girl was slated as an album track for a period of time. For now, unless we have a quote to point to, it is difficult to say for sure these songs were ever shelved for a period of time until the World In My Eyes single.
- Thanks for the apology. I can understand why you reverted my edits; having too much speculative info on a wiki can get messy, plus others may have different theories. I haven't found AW specifically say that those two are the original versions though, but I assumed they still counted as the "original versions" in the same way that a final mix of any track would. My belief was that the tracks were left off Violator for not being strong enough, left out the mixing sessions and then the final polishing was outsourced to FK's team. But of course, that's just my theory. It's still possible the mix names were just added to be fancy.
- I'm actually thinking of contacting Friedman and asking him about his involvement. I'm assuming he added additional synths (i.e the more techno-y ones don't sound like the work of AW and Flood to me), like he did in the FK remixes of Violator tracks, which credit him for "overdubs". He might remember more info too. OilTankMix (talk) 12:34, 18 July 2022 (EDT)